thx

You’ve expressed my view of “templates” perfectly. Using such an “overlay” you should be able to offer the ease of the “class” system to new players with the depth of skill trees for those more experienced. At least, that’s my hope

To use the Paladin as an example the template might require you to learn sword, shield, light armor, medium armor, and heavy armor to a certain level. With just those skills you would have completed the Fighter template but to complete the Paladin template you also need a skill of Miracles at a certain level as well as knowing the spells Lay Hands and Detect Evil.

That’s the template. Since most MMO’s don’t force paladins to play in a manner consistent with the D&D idea of a paladin you could leave it at that, but if you really wanted to make it so that not every Tom, Dick, and Harry fighter could become a paladin you could do things to restrict the Miracles stat. Players who take certain actions (accepting ‘evil’ missions, for example, learning the skill Necromancy, etc.) could be flagged so that their Miracles stat was capped at 0. Players who wished to become paladins would have to avoid these actions. Characters who complete the paladin template would continue to have to avoid these actions or else they would lose the stat of Miracles which would prevent them from being able to cast Lay Hands and Detect Evil.

Paladin still isn’t a class because other than certain actions that affect the Miracles stat a player would be free to develop however they wanted to. They could train heavy armor and shield way up like the typical D&D Paladin or they could train up light armor and dual wield and rely on parrying and dodging for their protection. Assuming it doesn’t violate the restrictions placed on Miracles they could learn unarmed combat and fight like a monk and still be a paladin as long as they had the minimum skills in armor and sword (though these skills might violate some of the restrictions for the special abilities of monks).

Also, unlike a class a player would be absolutely free to decide they wanted to try to fill out a new template. At any point a person who has completed the paladin template could decide ’screw it’ and start on the template for an assassin. The would probably loose their Miracles stat pretty quickly but would otherwise retain all the combat skills they had learned.

As for the blinking comment box, what browser are you using? The comment box isn’t suppose to blink under W3C standards, but since most browsers will fumble certain parts of the standards it is sometimes necessary to add little hacks to the XHTML code to help them out.

The idea of a template is interesting but again but I think it’s verging on simply saying “class” in a different way. Taking the commonly accepted notion of a Paladin (from D&D onwards), what differentiates a Paladin from your run of the mill, sword carrying warrior? Is it skills because he can “lay hands” or detect undead? Why can’t a fighter - or a fighter/cleric hybrid do that? Or is it because of his belief system and the way he lives his life?

I’d write more but you’re blinking comments box is annoying me.

I like the template idea a lot. I am use to thinking of templates as either starting templates (here’s your beginning stats) or ending templates for how to spend limited skill points, as in StarWars Galaxies. The idea of selecting a template that progresses with a character, offering advice in what skills should be trained would definitely make things easier on newbie players while still giving them the freedom to advance their character however they wish.

As you’ve said, though… that’s alot to toss upon a starting player. That’s why I’d advocate “templates.”

What’s a template? Think of it as an “overlay” that’s applied over the tree, revealing only those skills most relevant to a particular class (and possibly even hilighting in colors which skill LEVELS are adequate or “need work”.

A new player can select a “template” of “Paladin” and see what skills the generic paladin would focus on. As the player gets more experienced and understands the game, he can shed the template and experiment with the whole tree, or even add another template to the mix, revealing different avenues of development.

-
Do we blur the lines defining roles? Most certainly, but I’d love to see a system where roles were more fluid… where if my adventurer put on the bulky armor & shield he’d be the tank, but by dropping into the lighter leathers and donning two swords, he could be an offensive powerhouse. A Magic user could be prepared with offensive spells or defensive spells- a tank or a blaster. Should magic fail him, he might pick up a sword or even don armor for protection.

Skill defines the range of capabilities, gear defines the role the character is playing at that time.